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[Music]

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greetings friends of escapology

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welcome to a brand new episode of ask an

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astrobiologist a show where we celebrate

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science and celebrate scientists my name

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is Sandra um and this program is made

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possible by contributions from the NASA

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Astrobiology program and a non profit

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blue marble space last month he had the

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great privilege of having at this very

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seat dr. Graham Lau talked to dr. Amanda

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Stockton at Georgia Tech and had a

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fantastic conversation on light

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detection technologies field work in

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Iceland and how to detect life on Mars

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this week however and today in specially

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we are going to go far away to the solar

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system and we're gonna explore and talk

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about the moon Titan which is the second

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largest moon in the solar system that

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orbits the beautiful planet Saturn and

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in order to do that we'll be talking

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with dr. Morgan Cable who is a scientist

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at the famed Jet Propulsion Laboratory

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in the City of Pasadena in the United

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States but before we talk to her it's

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time for your monthly background quiz we

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all saw the message armed on the social

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medias Mike if you can put up the

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background from last month many of you

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got it right I think Eve over 40 of you

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got the correct answer it is of course

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the pamukkala Paulo pamukkale a terraces

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in southwest turkey those are travertine

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terraces and the water comes out from

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those hot springs full of calcium

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carbonate and as the co2 the gases the

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rocks that carbon carbonate rocks

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precipitate down to form a gel and over

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time solidify they've been used as pools

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for humans for medical reasons for

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thousands of years in fact is a Roman

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greco-roman rune at the top of it but

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humans as they do start to damage it as

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more and more more people got to it it

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was declared

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a World Heritage Site in 1988 so now we

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can only enjoy it with your eyes so we

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have three winners the third place gets

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the NASA stickers

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it is sarin knurl congratulations and

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the second place gets the NASA stickers

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as well as the astrobiology comic novels

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and those go to Anthony Adler

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congratulations Anthony and the first

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place who gets the stickers the graphic

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novels and the twin class goes to at

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organism 1974 congratulations to all of

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you next month we'll be giving out

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prizes for those of you who can guess

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what my current background is so enjoy

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any time during the show you have

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questions from for dr. cable please put

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them on the second achat put them on

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twitter with hashtag ask astro bio or

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write in your comments on facebook live

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and here we go so Morgan it is great to

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have you on the show welcome hi Sandra

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I'm so happy to be here oh you have no

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idea I'm loving the Saturn the earrings

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here they look great you talk about so

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much science today I'm very excited what

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what we like to do on this show is get

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to know you a bit more as well and we're

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wondering you know like we like to do on

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this program is turning back the wheels

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of time if you have any stories on what

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made you interested in science to begin

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with well I actually grew up in Florida

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in a little town called Titusville that

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is right next to you Kennedy Space

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Center and so as a kid growing up I

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thought it was just normal to have

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Rockets kind of going off in your

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backyard actually all of my like

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elementary and middle schools we would

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time our fire drills around launches so

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whatever space shuttle was gonna go up

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we would have our regularly scheduled

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fire drills and of a queue eight outside

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and we get to watch the launch and I

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thought that was just like a normal

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thing so it definitely had an impact on

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me my dad actually worked for NASA - he

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was a chemist I had inspiration all over

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that you know testing the boundaries of

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exploration both in terms of like taking

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people there and also extending our

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senses with robots just I knew that this

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was something we could do I knew I loved

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science and asking interesting questions

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and then going out and figuring out the

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answers to

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questions and so when I realize that

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could be a career and I could do it for

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stuff in space that was a no-brainer

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that's so exciting you know I went to

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university in Florida as well and I used

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to like run out of class during shuttle

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launches we didn't have any fire drills

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or any think about just run out of class

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even you know professor lecturing look

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at the rocket well I'm gonna go back to

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class I got in trouble a few times but

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yeah it's awesome so then afterwards you

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went to do your PhD at Cal Tech but

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before that like how did you decide it

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wanted to be a doctor of science well my

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dad had a PhD in chemistry and so I sort

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of saw from him what that career path

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could be like and I'm actually a triplet

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my brother and sister ended up becoming

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MDS the other kind of doctor but we all

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sort of through school kind of pushed

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each other to do better and to work

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harder and to achieve more and that's a

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lesson that I carry through actually

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until today there's a saying what is it

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if you're the smartest person in the

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room you're in the wrong room like

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surrounding yourself with people who

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challenge you is a lesson that I think

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is really important and it's one of the

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reasons why we're able to do the amazing

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science and technological achievements

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at JPL that we do every day um so I had

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that inspiration when I was an

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undergraduate student I stayed in state

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I went to a college called Florida

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Atlantic University for my undergrad and

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I did a summer internship out at JPL now

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I strongly encourage this anyone who is

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an undergrad I think there are also

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programs for high school students and

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graduate students as well do an

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internship it's a great way for you to

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figure out whether it's a NASA Center or

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industry or what-have-you it's a great

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way for you to actually go there and

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figure out if that's a place that you

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could see yourself working in the future

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and you can network you can expand your

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network to be able to connect with

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people that can potentially hire you one

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day it's a great opportunity so I did

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that and ended up falling in love with

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JPL and with Caltech and that's what

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solidified my choice to go to Caltech

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for graduate school in chemistry so I

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sort of followed in my dad's footsteps

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that way and did you how do you benefit

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from from professor in terms of

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who care about you as a person rather

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than you as your academics in other

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words you have mentors that help support

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you as you went through Cal Tech I mean

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it's not an easy university

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I'm telling more about that support

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network you had I yah So Cal Tech was

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was a very challenging environment but

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also very supportive one they actually

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encouraged a lot of collaboration and

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mentoring was a big part of my my

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education and continues to this day

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whether I went out and sought my own

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mentors whether they were chemistry

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professors people in my field or outside

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of my fields and even at JPL there's

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actually an official mentoring program

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that you can join to help link you with

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people who have a sort of higher level

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view of all the different projects going

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on and sort of where you might fit best

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in terms of your skills I think that

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whether there's a formal program that

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exists wherever you might be or if

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you're willing to just reach out to

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people either at your current level your

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peers or who are further along in their

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careers mentoring is a really amazing

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opportunity you should take advantage of

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Heiko all those words so chemistry is a

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very broad discipline what got you

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interested in astrobiology in particular

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well I've always loved I to me chemistry

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is the language through which the

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universe communicates right it's it's

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sort of the fundamental building blocks

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of biology right physics mostly deals

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with like atomic interactions right

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atoms but it's once you combine them

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into molecules and then you see how

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those molecules interact and react with

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each other that's where all the

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interesting stuff happens and so for me

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I was always fascinated in knots and

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actually this goes all the way back to

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eighth grade I was in eighth grade

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middle school student and I needed to do

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a science project at this point I had

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already been interested in NASA and

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planetary science and I ended up forming

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a project around the question is there

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life on Mars and even at that middle

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school level I was able to put forth a

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question that was based on this

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interaction that basalt of

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kena croc has with liquid water it's

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called serpentinization it creates

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hydrogen and I had read an article in

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science news about this bacteria this

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actually it was a community of all sorts

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of different microorganisms that were

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living off of that hydrogen source and

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then co2 was a source of carbon an

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inorganic source of carbon and that was

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all they needed to survive and I'm

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thinking okay well Mars has had

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volcanoes so it's called volcanic rock

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it's got a co2 atmosphere and deep down

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underground

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it may have liquid water so if it has

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all those three ingredients

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maybe this form of life could live there

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and so I did to the best of my ability

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as an eighth grade student tried to

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replicate that environment and my dad

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actually helped me he was a professor

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part-time at a local community college

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that you're not allowed to grow bacteria

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at home we every six hours to check the

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growth of my bacteria so I was waking up

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with my dad like every six hours to

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drive there and in the middle of the

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night and stuff but it was a wonderful

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experience and I think that was the

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first taste that got me really hooked on

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astrobiology the hunt for life the

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question of are we alone in the universe

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you know we have the technology now to

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try to answer that question at least in

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our own cosmic backyard it's a pretty

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amazing time to be a planetary scientist

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and any master biology

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yeah it's a great time to be alive I

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think we will be the generation of

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humans which will be able to answer

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whether or not we're alone in the

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universe which is you know it's awesome

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it's just an incredible time to be alive

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to do science and so the Cassini

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spacecraft launched in 1997 I remember

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it quite clearly actually I think I have

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my name in one of the CDs that's on the

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spacecraft you were involved with

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Cassini pretty early on right in your

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career um I actually wasn't involved

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early in Cassini's history but early in

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my career at JPL during the last couple

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of years of the Cassini mission

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Linda Stoker who's the project scientist

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dr. Linda Stoker invited me to join as

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something called a project science

274
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systems engineer I know how it sounds

275
00:11:00,269 --> 00:10:57,939
complicated but basically I was the

276
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liaison between the scientists and the

277
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mission and the engineers that are

278
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working on the spacecraft and that

279
00:11:07,449 --> 00:11:05,420
communication is really in

280
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because sometimes scientists and

281
00:11:11,530 --> 00:11:08,870
engineers may speak in different

282
00:11:14,500 --> 00:11:11,540
languages and ultimately the more the

283
00:11:16,389 --> 00:11:14,510
engineers understand the science that we

284
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want to accomplish the better that they

285
00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:20,180
can say plan sequences of Cassini like

286
00:11:25,030 --> 00:11:22,850
what instruments are pointing where and

287
00:11:27,130 --> 00:11:25,040
and those types of serve engineering

288
00:11:29,170 --> 00:11:27,140
problems and then the better scientists

289
00:11:31,180 --> 00:11:29,180
can understand engineering constraints

290
00:11:34,470 --> 00:11:31,190
of a mission they can frame their

291
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science questions better to best use the

292
00:11:39,569 --> 00:11:36,920
instruments to their full limits without

293
00:11:41,949 --> 00:11:39,579
trying to exceed that we always say at

294
00:11:43,780 --> 00:11:41,959
JPL that the scientists want to go to

295
00:11:45,670 --> 00:11:43,790
the interesting places the engineers

296
00:11:47,380 --> 00:11:45,680
want to go to the safe places and we

297
00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:47,390
need to find you know the areas where

298
00:11:52,990 --> 00:11:50,450
that Venn diagram coincides so it was a

299
00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:53,000
really amazing experience the Cassini

300
00:11:58,240 --> 00:11:55,250
mission like you said it launched in 97

301
00:11:59,470 --> 00:11:58,250
but it was built before that rights and

302
00:12:02,560 --> 00:11:59,480
there are people who have been working

303
00:12:05,889 --> 00:12:02,570
on Cassini their entire careers Cassini

304
00:12:08,530 --> 00:12:05,899
arrived at Saturn in 2004 and did

305
00:12:10,540 --> 00:12:08,540
science for 13 years before we did that

306
00:12:12,490 --> 00:12:10,550
elegant swan dive during the grand

307
00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:12,500
finale where we plunged into the

308
00:12:17,740 --> 00:12:14,930
atmosphere of Saturn and during that

309
00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:17,750
time the Cassini team really became a

310
00:12:22,180 --> 00:12:19,970
family and to be welcomed into that

311
00:12:24,009 --> 00:12:22,190
family near the end of the mission was

312
00:12:25,569 --> 00:12:24,019
such an amazing experience I got to

313
00:12:27,610 --> 00:12:25,579
learn from people who had been doing

314
00:12:30,670 --> 00:12:27,620
this science in this engineering for

315
00:12:32,530 --> 00:12:30,680
decades and being able to carry that

316
00:12:34,030 --> 00:12:32,540
over into future missions it is

317
00:12:36,910 --> 00:12:34,040
something that's really critical I think

318
00:12:38,860 --> 00:12:36,920
to be able to have us you know best when

319
00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:38,870
we're exploring especially the outer

320
00:12:44,740 --> 00:12:43,130
solar system that's fantastic so in 2004

321
00:12:47,949 --> 00:12:44,750
something else really exciting happened

322
00:12:49,389 --> 00:12:47,959
the Cassini spacecraft was had a piggy

323
00:12:52,269 --> 00:12:49,399
back of another payload called the

324
00:12:53,980 --> 00:12:52,279
Huygens probe which separated from the

325
00:12:56,019 --> 00:12:53,990
spacecraft and went through the

326
00:12:57,730 --> 00:12:56,029
atmosphere of the moon Titan and landed

327
00:12:59,410 --> 00:12:57,740
on the surface this was in collaboration

328
00:13:02,079 --> 00:12:59,420
was a European Space Agency

329
00:13:03,759 --> 00:13:02,089
I remember refreshing the ESA webpage

330
00:13:05,740 --> 00:13:03,769
furiously as the thing was coming down

331
00:13:07,540 --> 00:13:05,750
to get the first pictures and we saw

332
00:13:09,610 --> 00:13:07,550
those first pictures we saw a world that

333
00:13:12,490 --> 00:13:09,620
we're almost familiar with if you were

334
00:13:14,439 --> 00:13:12,500
to stand on Titan today Morgan hello

335
00:13:16,030 --> 00:13:14,449
bring us there what do you see what you

336
00:13:17,650 --> 00:13:16,040
smell what would be look what would it

337
00:13:18,620 --> 00:13:17,660
look like awesome

338
00:13:20,210 --> 00:13:18,630
yeah I loved how

339
00:13:22,340 --> 00:13:20,220
about Titan like you said it's the

340
00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:22,350
second largest moon in our solar system

341
00:13:27,110 --> 00:13:24,690
actually if you count its atmosphere

342
00:13:28,730 --> 00:13:27,120
it's the biggest but we'll let Ganymede

343
00:13:30,079 --> 00:13:28,740
you know have something because Titan I

344
00:13:32,689 --> 00:13:30,089
think it's way more fascinating

345
00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:32,699
sorry Ganymede fans if you were standing

346
00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:34,050
on the surface of Titan

347
00:13:37,970 --> 00:13:35,730
well picture this the atmosphere is

348
00:13:40,069 --> 00:13:37,980
about one-and-a-half times thicker than

349
00:13:42,050 --> 00:13:40,079
Earth's so you wouldn't need a spacesuit

350
00:13:43,610 --> 00:13:42,060
you need a really really thick parka

351
00:13:46,780 --> 00:13:43,620
though because the average surface

352
00:13:49,519 --> 00:13:46,790
temperature is 90 Kelvin which is minus

353
00:13:50,900 --> 00:13:49,529
183 degrees C I don't remember what that

354
00:13:52,519 --> 00:13:50,910
is in Fahrenheit because I'm a scientist

355
00:13:53,210 --> 00:13:52,529
we don't work in Fahrenheit but it's

356
00:13:55,009 --> 00:13:53,220
really cold

357
00:13:56,749 --> 00:13:55,019
though so you need some kind of really

358
00:13:58,879 --> 00:13:56,759
thick parka to keep you warm and you

359
00:14:01,040 --> 00:13:58,889
need to bring your own oxygen because

360
00:14:03,230 --> 00:14:01,050
there is no oxygen and Titan's

361
00:14:04,819 --> 00:14:03,240
atmosphere but it is nitrogen rich it's

362
00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:04,829
got a lot of nitrogen and a lot of

363
00:14:09,019 --> 00:14:07,050
methane so if you were standing on the

364
00:14:11,930 --> 00:14:09,029
surface you would feel I think it would

365
00:14:13,819 --> 00:14:11,940
be the equivalent of you about ten feet

366
00:14:14,300 --> 00:14:13,829
down in your swimming pool in terms of

367
00:14:16,790 --> 00:14:14,310
the pressure

368
00:14:18,110 --> 00:14:16,800
you'd feel so if you have a swimming

369
00:14:19,699 --> 00:14:18,120
pool just go to the deep end and dig

370
00:14:21,319 --> 00:14:19,709
back to the bottom that's about what you

371
00:14:23,509 --> 00:14:21,329
would feel for one and a half bars of

372
00:14:26,629 --> 00:14:23,519
pressure but because Titan's atmosphere

373
00:14:29,389 --> 00:14:26,639
is thicker and it's gravity is less it's

374
00:14:31,759 --> 00:14:29,399
about 1/7 that of Earth's gravity if you

375
00:14:34,879 --> 00:14:31,769
had wings and you flap them you could

376
00:14:36,259 --> 00:14:34,889
literally fly you'd float off the

377
00:14:39,050 --> 00:14:36,269
surface of Titan and you could fly

378
00:14:41,509 --> 00:14:39,060
around them so it's it's a really cool

379
00:14:43,249 --> 00:14:41,519
like alien environment when it comes to

380
00:14:46,610 --> 00:14:43,259
being able to interact with it in that

381
00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:46,620
way so would you would you be able to

382
00:14:51,769 --> 00:14:49,410
see Saturn what are you reading a flight

383
00:14:54,860 --> 00:14:51,779
because it's so far away so what I've

384
00:14:57,710 --> 00:14:54,870
heard of in terms of the lighting would

385
00:15:00,170 --> 00:14:57,720
be the equivalent of if you were sort of

386
00:15:01,639 --> 00:15:00,180
standing in a parking lot at dusk I

387
00:15:03,050 --> 00:15:01,649
think one scientist said I don't know

388
00:15:04,850 --> 00:15:03,060
why they picked a parking lot but that

389
00:15:07,939 --> 00:15:04,860
was the expression so imagine like

390
00:15:09,530 --> 00:15:07,949
things are really dim but that's in

391
00:15:12,620 --> 00:15:09,540
terms of the sunlight coming from Earth

392
00:15:15,170 --> 00:15:12,630
you might get some sunshine as well but

393
00:15:17,269 --> 00:15:15,180
Titan also has multiple haze layers it

394
00:15:20,569 --> 00:15:17,279
would sort of be like if you are in LA

395
00:15:24,079 --> 00:15:20,579
in dusk on a really smoggy day or smoggy

396
00:15:26,420 --> 00:15:24,089
evening and so it might be difficult to

397
00:15:28,460 --> 00:15:26,430
appear and actually see Saturn itself

398
00:15:30,139 --> 00:15:28,470
through those haze layers essentially

399
00:15:32,270 --> 00:15:30,149
what happens is it's sort of like how

400
00:15:34,190 --> 00:15:32,280
smog is generated here on earth

401
00:15:35,810 --> 00:15:34,200
in four Titan's atmosphere you start

402
00:15:39,170 --> 00:15:35,820
with the two main ingredients which is

403
00:15:43,010 --> 00:15:39,180
nitrogen n2 nitrogen gas and methane ch4

404
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:43,020
so you've got n C and H now if you have

405
00:15:47,180 --> 00:15:44,370
your chemistry set which I have

406
00:15:48,830 --> 00:15:47,190
somewhere here at home but I think if

407
00:15:50,420 --> 00:15:48,840
anyone else has one you just put those

408
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:50,430
three atoms together in whatever

409
00:15:54,830 --> 00:15:52,410
combination you can think of small

410
00:15:58,100 --> 00:15:54,840
molecules big molecules all of those

411
00:16:00,140 --> 00:15:58,110
exist on type they're mostly formed by a

412
00:16:02,300 --> 00:16:00,150
UV radiation there are other energy

413
00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:02,310
sources too in the atmosphere they break

414
00:16:06,230 --> 00:16:04,050
apart those those molecules and they'll

415
00:16:08,540 --> 00:16:06,240
form all sorts of things some of those

416
00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:08,550
will form those haze layers that we see

417
00:16:13,190 --> 00:16:10,290
the same way that smog forms here on

418
00:16:15,110 --> 00:16:13,200
earth and you'll also form particles

419
00:16:17,270 --> 00:16:15,120
that then rain down on the surface of

420
00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:17,280
Titan we actually think that's what the

421
00:16:20,990 --> 00:16:19,050
dunes are made of Titan has a bunch of

422
00:16:23,270 --> 00:16:21,000
dunes in its equatorial region sort of

423
00:16:26,270 --> 00:16:23,280
the waist pan right around the equator

424
00:16:28,460 --> 00:16:26,280
of Titan and it's also got these liquid

425
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:28,470
methane and ethane lakes at the poles

426
00:16:33,530 --> 00:16:30,690
Titan has weather just like Earth does

427
00:16:36,350 --> 00:16:33,540
it has clouds rain potentially snow -

428
00:16:38,150 --> 00:16:36,360
and so we see these river channels and

429
00:16:40,220 --> 00:16:38,160
gullies that are been etched because of

430
00:16:41,810 --> 00:16:40,230
these erosion processes just like we

431
00:16:45,380 --> 00:16:41,820
have on earth we have them on Titan -

432
00:16:47,420 --> 00:16:45,390
but they're made by different liquid so

433
00:16:50,270 --> 00:16:47,430
they're it's not water it's like rain of

434
00:16:52,130 --> 00:16:50,280
methane that forms Lakes and so it's

435
00:16:54,410 --> 00:16:52,140
very familiar almost this terrain that

436
00:16:56,210 --> 00:16:54,420
we know I mean we're it's not an alien

437
00:16:57,530 --> 00:16:56,220
terrain to report to the point that we

438
00:16:59,390 --> 00:16:57,540
recognize the rivers we couldn't

439
00:17:01,280 --> 00:16:59,400
recognize the lakes we recognize the

440
00:17:04,429 --> 00:17:01,290
rocks but the rocks are different right

441
00:17:06,710 --> 00:17:04,439
now on Titan yeah it all looks similar

442
00:17:08,449 --> 00:17:06,720
but it's made of very different stuff

443
00:17:10,730 --> 00:17:08,459
and that's one of the things that I

444
00:17:13,309 --> 00:17:10,740
encouraged are trying to understand in

445
00:17:16,189 --> 00:17:13,319
the laboratory it turns out Titan is not

446
00:17:17,990 --> 00:17:16,199
that hard to replicate in the lab we use

447
00:17:21,380 --> 00:17:18,000
something called liquid nitrogen which

448
00:17:24,260 --> 00:17:21,390
has a temperature of about 77 K Kelvin

449
00:17:27,230 --> 00:17:24,270
Titan's surface is 19 so you just make

450
00:17:29,690 --> 00:17:27,240
some cryostat it's what we call it cryo

451
00:17:32,150 --> 00:17:29,700
is cold so that is just stay so it's a

452
00:17:33,950 --> 00:17:32,160
way of maintaining temperature and we'll

453
00:17:35,300 --> 00:17:33,960
start it off by cooling it down a liquid

454
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:35,310
nitrogen temperature and then you just

455
00:17:39,110 --> 00:17:37,050
have to heat it up a little bit and then

456
00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:39,120
you've got Titan and as a liquid

457
00:17:43,460 --> 00:17:41,370
nitrogen boils off it makes a nitrogen

458
00:17:45,910 --> 00:17:43,470
atmosphere very similar to what titans

459
00:17:46,870 --> 00:17:45,920
is like and then we can do experiments

460
00:17:49,330 --> 00:17:46,880
we also have some more sophisticated

461
00:17:51,190 --> 00:17:49,340
ways of generating those same conditions

462
00:17:53,740 --> 00:17:51,200
but in principle that's all we're doing

463
00:17:55,570 --> 00:17:53,750
now once we do that then we can take

464
00:17:58,210 --> 00:17:55,580
different molecules that we know to

465
00:18:00,539 --> 00:17:58,220
exist on Titan because of the Cassini

466
00:18:03,070 --> 00:18:00,549
Boykins mission both the probe and

467
00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:03,080
orbital observations from the Cassini

468
00:18:07,780 --> 00:18:05,690
spacecraft itself and then we combine

469
00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:07,790
them and so far we've been very

470
00:18:13,660 --> 00:18:10,250
surprised even combining simple things

471
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:13,670
like benzene which is a solid and ethane

472
00:18:18,250 --> 00:18:16,010
which is a liquid you mix those two

473
00:18:20,230 --> 00:18:18,260
things together and you form essentially

474
00:18:23,049 --> 00:18:20,240
a Titan mineral we think of it as

475
00:18:25,570 --> 00:18:23,059
something similar to a hydrated mineral

476
00:18:27,250 --> 00:18:25,580
here on earth because ethane is part of

477
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:27,260
a liquid phase of Titan just like water

478
00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:29,330
is part of the liquid phase here on

479
00:18:34,810 --> 00:18:31,490
earth what we're finding is these these

480
00:18:39,100 --> 00:18:34,820
minerals may be ways of storing or

481
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:39,110
moving or being able to to change some

482
00:18:43,090 --> 00:18:41,210
of the surface properties in ways that

483
00:18:44,710 --> 00:18:43,100
we might not expect and this can be

484
00:18:46,870 --> 00:18:44,720
important for answering a lot of big

485
00:18:50,620 --> 00:18:46,880
questions about Titan that are still

486
00:18:52,690 --> 00:18:50,630
unknown one of those big questions is if

487
00:18:55,450 --> 00:18:52,700
you look at the atmosphere you've got

488
00:18:58,360 --> 00:18:55,460
nitrogen and methane and over the the

489
00:19:00,220 --> 00:18:58,370
history of Titan if if you believe it's

490
00:19:02,409 --> 00:19:00,230
been around since like the beginning of

491
00:19:04,810 --> 00:19:02,419
the solar system we're just what four

492
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:04,820
and a half billion years then we should

493
00:19:09,130 --> 00:19:06,890
not just have lakes on the surface of

494
00:19:11,770 --> 00:19:09,140
Titan but we should have an ocean all of

495
00:19:13,030 --> 00:19:11,780
the the methane and ethane that's formed

496
00:19:15,460 --> 00:19:13,040
and stuff should have rained down and

497
00:19:18,220 --> 00:19:15,470
made out a really thick ocean but it's

498
00:19:20,020 --> 00:19:18,230
not there and we don't know why and one

499
00:19:21,789 --> 00:19:20,030
of the reasons maybe there are some

500
00:19:23,620 --> 00:19:21,799
minerals that are sucking up some of

501
00:19:25,299 --> 00:19:23,630
those those liquids and storing them

502
00:19:27,460 --> 00:19:25,309
underground and reservoirs that we can't

503
00:19:28,900 --> 00:19:27,470
see no that's one of the questions we're

504
00:19:31,630 --> 00:19:28,910
trying to answer with our laboratory

505
00:19:34,210 --> 00:19:31,640
work that's fascinating so it's almost a

506
00:19:36,610 --> 00:19:34,220
new discipline like Titan petrology the

507
00:19:38,620 --> 00:19:36,620
study of rocks that are not silicates

508
00:19:40,900 --> 00:19:38,630
like we're familiar with on earth yeah

509
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:40,910
totally I remember the first time we sat

510
00:19:44,590 --> 00:19:42,890
in the lab and we were we were looking

511
00:19:46,090 --> 00:19:44,600
at some of these molecules with our

512
00:19:47,590 --> 00:19:46,100
instrument and we saw some weird Peaks

513
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:47,600
come up and one of my colleagues said

514
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:51,410
huh that's weird and you love that in

515
00:19:55,270 --> 00:19:53,450
science especially as an experimentalist

516
00:19:58,540 --> 00:19:55,280
cuz that's when you know something cool

517
00:19:58,840 --> 00:19:58,550
is about to be discovered maybe and in

518
00:20:03,910 --> 00:19:58,850
this

519
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:03,920
titan mineral since then we found a

520
00:20:08,020 --> 00:20:05,930
couple others and we have hints at a few

521
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:08,030
more and because of that one of our

522
00:20:13,780 --> 00:20:10,490
colleagues her name's Helen miner Casely

523
00:20:15,850 --> 00:20:13,790
she's a scientist down in Australia he

524
00:20:17,290 --> 00:20:15,860
works in the Australian nuclear Science

525
00:20:19,180 --> 00:20:17,300
and Technology office we've been

526
00:20:20,860 --> 00:20:19,190
collaborating with her to get crystal

527
00:20:22,630 --> 00:20:20,870
structures of some of these and she

528
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:22,640
recently wrote a piece of paper talking

529
00:20:27,790 --> 00:20:25,010
about this new field of chitin petrology

530
00:20:30,550 --> 00:20:27,800
it's a really exciting time as a chemist

531
00:20:32,230 --> 00:20:30,560
doing organic chemistry now I need to

532
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:32,240
learn a lot more about mineralogy and

533
00:20:35,890 --> 00:20:34,490
geology and all of these things so we've

534
00:20:37,990 --> 00:20:35,900
been picking the brains of some of our

535
00:20:40,300 --> 00:20:38,000
colleagues to try to understand how

536
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:40,310
these organic molecules now are behaving

537
00:20:44,860 --> 00:20:42,410
like minerals and what that might mean

538
00:20:48,430 --> 00:20:44,870
for surface features we see on Titan or

539
00:20:49,750 --> 00:20:48,440
maybe even light let's talk about life

540
00:20:50,170 --> 00:20:49,760
in a second I definitely want to go

541
00:20:51,700 --> 00:20:50,180
there

542
00:20:53,590 --> 00:20:51,710
but first again for those of you who are

543
00:20:55,090 --> 00:20:53,600
watching don't forget to use hashtag ask

544
00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:55,100
Esther bio if you wanna ask us a

545
00:20:58,720 --> 00:20:57,050
question on Twitter if you're watching

546
00:21:00,190 --> 00:20:58,730
on Sagan I'd use this chat function

547
00:21:01,630 --> 00:21:00,200
there if you don't face the client put

548
00:21:04,990 --> 00:21:01,640
your questions down in the comments and

549
00:21:07,210 --> 00:21:05,000
we'll get those to dr. Kable and shortly

550
00:21:09,250 --> 00:21:07,220
but let's talk about life on Titan it's

551
00:21:12,580 --> 00:21:09,260
so that the surface temperature on Titan

552
00:21:14,650 --> 00:21:12,590
is colder than the lowest temperature

553
00:21:16,690 --> 00:21:14,660
that life has been identified with on

554
00:21:20,170 --> 00:21:16,700
earth so we need to think more

555
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:20,180
creatively about chemical processes that

556
00:21:26,380 --> 00:21:22,730
could be identified possibly as life on

557
00:21:28,060 --> 00:21:26,390
Titan you do and actually I should take

558
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:28,070
a step back and say that there are

559
00:21:32,290 --> 00:21:30,170
really two environments where we might

560
00:21:34,060 --> 00:21:32,300
find life on Titan there's the surface

561
00:21:35,380 --> 00:21:34,070
which is sort of weird and alien and

562
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:35,390
we'll talk about that in a moment

563
00:21:40,630 --> 00:21:37,970
but there's also the subsurface just

564
00:21:43,300 --> 00:21:40,640
like Europa Enceladus and a lot of these

565
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:43,310
other ocean worlds Titan also has a

566
00:21:48,310 --> 00:21:46,850
global liquid water ocean underneath all

567
00:21:51,130 --> 00:21:48,320
of the cool stuff happening on the

568
00:21:53,650 --> 00:21:51,140
surface and so that ocean is probably

569
00:21:55,900 --> 00:21:53,660
much more amenable to life as we know it

570
00:21:57,910 --> 00:21:55,910
so if we want to define bacteria that

571
00:22:00,460 --> 00:21:57,920
lived in water that would be a place to

572
00:22:02,980 --> 00:22:00,470
look now it may be really hard to drill

573
00:22:05,230 --> 00:22:02,990
down into that ocean it's the crust is I

574
00:22:07,870 --> 00:22:05,240
forget it's it's tens - maybe a hundred

575
00:22:09,490 --> 00:22:07,880
kilometers thick something like that and

576
00:22:12,010 --> 00:22:09,500
so getting down there might be tough

577
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:12,020
there are a few places on the surface

578
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:14,450
where we see evidence of what we think

579
00:22:18,730 --> 00:22:16,730
our cryovolcanoes that's a place where

580
00:22:20,620 --> 00:22:18,740
some of that liquid water might have

581
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:20,630
gotten pushed up and formed this cryo

582
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:22,610
magma that spilled out on the surface

583
00:22:26,770 --> 00:22:24,530
and that would be an excellent place to

584
00:22:29,890 --> 00:22:26,780
try to look for life as we know it or at

585
00:22:31,450 --> 00:22:29,900
least evidence of it but like I said

586
00:22:33,550 --> 00:22:31,460
there's this other environment this

587
00:22:36,070 --> 00:22:33,560
alien environment that exists on the

588
00:22:38,430 --> 00:22:36,080
surface this is where the liquid phase

589
00:22:40,990 --> 00:22:38,440
is not water but ethane and methane

590
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:41,000
hydrocarbons now from a fundamental

591
00:22:46,870 --> 00:22:44,090
chemistry perspective water is what we

592
00:22:49,780 --> 00:22:46,880
call a polar solvent methane and ethane

593
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:49,790
are nonpolar now if you remember your

594
00:22:53,830 --> 00:22:51,530
basic high school chemistry like

595
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:53,840
dissolves like right you can't dissolve

596
00:22:57,490 --> 00:22:54,890
oil and water

597
00:22:59,610 --> 00:22:57,500
you can dissolve it in methane and

598
00:23:02,260 --> 00:22:59,620
ethane there are very fundamental

599
00:23:04,630 --> 00:23:02,270
differences to the liquids what they

600
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:04,640
will dissolve how they might react which

601
00:23:09,610 --> 00:23:06,890
tells us that any life that were to

602
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:09,620
exist in a methane or ethane lake would

603
00:23:14,050 --> 00:23:11,210
have to be very different just

604
00:23:16,420 --> 00:23:14,060
chemically from any earth life that

605
00:23:18,100 --> 00:23:16,430
existed in water so there's the fact

606
00:23:20,230 --> 00:23:18,110
that the solvent is different the liquid

607
00:23:22,270 --> 00:23:20,240
is different but also like you said the

608
00:23:25,420 --> 00:23:22,280
temperature is different now here on

609
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:25,430
earth were happy at you know 75 degrees

610
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:27,530
fahrenheit there see I use Fahrenheit um

611
00:23:31,870 --> 00:23:29,810
or or warmer and like you said the the

612
00:23:33,340 --> 00:23:31,880
coldest I can't recall what the coldest

613
00:23:35,770 --> 00:23:33,350
temperature that life has existed in

614
00:23:39,460 --> 00:23:35,780
it's it's Sub Zero but not too much

615
00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:39,470
below that um that's still a balmy super

616
00:23:45,130 --> 00:23:43,370
hot day on Titan right and whenever for

617
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:45,140
a chemist or a biochemist whenever you

618
00:23:51,190 --> 00:23:48,290
cool things down reactions slow down or

619
00:23:53,350 --> 00:23:51,200
they may stop completely right chemistry

620
00:23:55,300 --> 00:23:53,360
becomes very different at these low

621
00:23:56,950 --> 00:23:55,310
temperatures and so one of the things

622
00:24:00,760 --> 00:23:56,960
that we are trying to understand in the

623
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:00,770
lab is what tools some sort of weird

624
00:24:04,740 --> 00:24:02,930
alien life might use in this very cold

625
00:24:07,690 --> 00:24:04,750
environment I'll give you an example

626
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:07,700
earth life all earth life that we know

627
00:24:14,410 --> 00:24:10,850
of uses one energy molecule it's called

628
00:24:16,750 --> 00:24:14,420
ATP adenosine triphosphate and the way

629
00:24:19,630 --> 00:24:16,760
that your cells in your body and all

630
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:19,640
microorganisms and giraffes and to worms

631
00:24:23,750 --> 00:24:21,410
and everyone uses the same energy

632
00:24:26,510 --> 00:24:23,760
molecule the way that you transfer that

633
00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:26,520
energy around is by making or breaking a

634
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:29,130
covalent bond so you you add or subtract

635
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:31,170
a phosphate that's a covalent bond that

636
00:24:35,420 --> 00:24:33,570
you used to do that well that's fine

637
00:24:37,430 --> 00:24:35,430
here on earth that you've got a dump

638
00:24:39,860 --> 00:24:37,440
some energy into break the bond but then

639
00:24:43,430 --> 00:24:39,870
you get some energy out at the same time

640
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:43,440
but on Titan a covalent bond is really

641
00:24:48,380 --> 00:24:45,690
really tough to make or break it

642
00:24:50,140 --> 00:24:48,390
requires sort of the equivalent of a lot

643
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:50,150
more energy at those low temperatures

644
00:24:56,030 --> 00:24:53,610
now on earth we have different types of

645
00:24:57,410 --> 00:24:56,040
bonds we have hydrogen bonds things

646
00:24:59,810 --> 00:24:57,420
called van der Waals forces or

647
00:25:01,610 --> 00:24:59,820
dipole-dipole interactions fancy words

648
00:25:04,190 --> 00:25:01,620
for basically bombs that are a lot

649
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:04,200
weaker now here on earth they're not

650
00:25:09,470 --> 00:25:07,290
quite as useful for say trading energy

651
00:25:11,300 --> 00:25:09,480
around but on Titan maybe those weaker

652
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:11,310
bonds would be much more important a

653
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:12,810
weaker bond might be the equivalent

654
00:25:17,210 --> 00:25:15,570
about covalent bonds here on earth and

655
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:17,220
so we sort of have to take a step back

656
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:20,010
and rethink how we might look for life

657
00:25:26,870 --> 00:25:23,810
or the basic tools life might use to

658
00:25:29,210 --> 00:25:26,880
make bonds break bonds and form the

659
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:29,220
molecular machinery to be alive so those

660
00:25:32,990 --> 00:25:30,450
those are some of the questions that

661
00:25:33,410 --> 00:25:33,000
we're trying to address in this alien

662
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:33,420
world

663
00:25:40,250 --> 00:25:37,890
that's Titan so it just shows the danger

664
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:40,260
of having an anthropomorphic view of

665
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:41,610
life in the universe like just knowing

666
00:25:46,250 --> 00:25:43,650
the only kind of life that we do know it

667
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:46,260
is earth life so awesome that you think

668
00:25:50,540 --> 00:25:48,570
about these new chemical ways that that

669
00:25:51,740 --> 00:25:50,550
chemical systems could perhaps evolve

670
00:25:53,540 --> 00:25:51,750
into something biological

671
00:25:55,610 --> 00:25:53,550
really cool speaking of planetary

672
00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:55,620
surfaces you're also involved in the

673
00:26:00,290 --> 00:25:57,690
exploration of another planetary surface

674
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:00,300
on a moon around Saturn and that is the

675
00:26:05,660 --> 00:26:03,210
surface of Enceladus right no Europa

676
00:26:06,470 --> 00:26:05,670
Lander are on Jupiter I'm sorry but tell

677
00:26:09,020 --> 00:26:06,480
us a little bit about your involvement

678
00:26:12,890 --> 00:26:09,030
in the in the lander that's gonna

679
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:12,900
explore the surface of Jupiter of Europa

680
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:13,410
hopefully

681
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:15,930
door yeah and I would love to talk about

682
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:17,970
and sell it as - that's an amazing world

683
00:26:23,660 --> 00:26:20,730
like you said Europe was a fascinating

684
00:26:25,210 --> 00:26:23,670
place also currently nASA has one

685
00:26:27,350 --> 00:26:25,220
mission that's definitely going to

686
00:26:29,810 --> 00:26:27,360
Europa that's called the Europa clipper

687
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:29,820
mission I'm a collaborator on one of

688
00:26:33,980 --> 00:26:31,650
those instruments aboard that mission

689
00:26:37,130 --> 00:26:33,990
that one is going to do orbits around

690
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:37,140
Jupiter and then flybys of Europa and

691
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:39,210
it's gonna map the surface and higher

692
00:26:43,070 --> 00:26:40,650
resolution than we've ever done before

693
00:26:46,250 --> 00:26:43,080
the instrument that I'm a part of is

694
00:26:48,650 --> 00:26:46,260
called my's mapping imaging spectrometer

695
00:26:50,780 --> 00:26:48,660
for Europa and that will help us get at

696
00:26:52,970 --> 00:26:50,790
the composition of the surface we're

697
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:52,980
still not sure if there are some places

698
00:26:57,890 --> 00:26:55,410
that are rich in salts like magnesium

699
00:26:59,690 --> 00:26:57,900
sulfate or if they're rich in things

700
00:27:02,150 --> 00:26:59,700
like sulfuric acid which might not be as

701
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:02,160
useful for life so there are all sorts

702
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:04,170
of interesting questions that the Europa

703
00:27:09,350 --> 00:27:05,610
clipper mission will address about

704
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:09,360
Europa is history its habitability its

705
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:12,090
potential to hold life in its subsurface

706
00:27:16,130 --> 00:27:14,610
liquid water ocean so that mission is

707
00:27:18,770 --> 00:27:16,140
really exciting and that one's moving

708
00:27:20,930 --> 00:27:18,780
forward I'm also part of another mission

709
00:27:22,250 --> 00:27:20,940
concept that would actually land like

710
00:27:24,470 --> 00:27:22,260
you said this is called the Europa

711
00:27:26,630 --> 00:27:24,480
Lander it's still in what we call pre

712
00:27:28,940 --> 00:27:26,640
phase a so it's not a real mission yet

713
00:27:31,190 --> 00:27:28,950
it's still a concept study but we've

714
00:27:33,770 --> 00:27:31,200
done a lot of work on it our colleagues

715
00:27:36,410 --> 00:27:33,780
at JPL and elsewhere to develop the

716
00:27:38,900 --> 00:27:36,420
ideas that this mission would would try

717
00:27:41,180 --> 00:27:38,910
to address and the goal here I mean this

718
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:41,190
would be the first time we would land on

719
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:42,810
an ocean world without an atmosphere

720
00:27:47,210 --> 00:27:44,850
right the Huygens probe the

721
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:47,220
collaboration with ista landed on Titan

722
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:49,170
that had a very thick atmosphere it's a

723
00:27:52,010 --> 00:27:50,730
much different landing architecture

724
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:52,020
because you can use parachutes and

725
00:27:56,630 --> 00:27:53,970
things like that on a place like you

726
00:27:58,880 --> 00:27:56,640
wrote by you can't so we're working on

727
00:28:01,880 --> 00:27:58,890
some creative ways to be able to safely

728
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:01,890
land a payload in this alien environment

729
00:28:06,110 --> 00:28:03,810
where the highest resolution image we

730
00:28:08,150 --> 00:28:06,120
have right now is only six meters per

731
00:28:10,490 --> 00:28:08,160
pixel now it turns out we've done some

732
00:28:12,230 --> 00:28:10,500
similar things on Mars where we didn't

733
00:28:14,810 --> 00:28:12,240
have very good imagery of the surface

734
00:28:16,670 --> 00:28:14,820
but we're still able to land safely so

735
00:28:18,770 --> 00:28:16,680
we're taking a lot of those those tools

736
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:18,780
and that knowledge and experience from

737
00:28:24,140 --> 00:28:21,690
the Mars community and applying that to

738
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:24,150
Europa it's a really exciting time I

739
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:26,610
mean could you imagine what if we land

740
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:28,530
on the surface and we cut into that ice

741
00:28:32,570 --> 00:28:30,450
and we collect a sample and we find

742
00:28:35,870 --> 00:28:32,580
evidence of life there how amazing would

743
00:28:37,490 --> 00:28:35,880
that be that's incredible yeah so you're

744
00:28:39,710 --> 00:28:37,500
involved in exploring the entire solar

745
00:28:41,900 --> 00:28:39,720
system it seems what a career well there

746
00:28:43,490 --> 00:28:41,910
are so many amazing places to go I mean

747
00:28:44,490 --> 00:28:43,500
it's it's hard to say no when someone

748
00:28:46,620 --> 00:28:44,500
says hey we're we're

749
00:28:48,450 --> 00:28:46,630
on a mission concept to go to tighten

750
00:28:50,310 --> 00:28:48,460
her to go to Enceladus you know what am

751
00:28:51,900 --> 00:28:50,320
I gonna do oh no I'm too busy that's not

752
00:28:54,270 --> 00:28:51,910
a very exciting place of course I'm not

753
00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:54,280
gonna say that but it is hard you know

754
00:29:00,540 --> 00:28:57,610
you want to not see us everything but

755
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:00,550
yes in particular Titan Enceladus in

756
00:29:05,340 --> 00:29:03,250
Europa those three are just they're so

757
00:29:08,070 --> 00:29:05,350
fascinating and they're so deserving of

758
00:29:11,010 --> 00:29:08,080
more exploration I really hope we get to

759
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:11,020
do as much science as we can you know in

760
00:29:14,820 --> 00:29:12,850
our lifetime and preparing the next

761
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:14,830
generation for making the discoveries

762
00:29:19,740 --> 00:29:17,770
there if anything Cassini and Galileo

763
00:29:22,500 --> 00:29:19,750
these missions to these outer planets

764
00:29:24,210 --> 00:29:22,510
they've taught us that you know every

765
00:29:26,340 --> 00:29:24,220
time you go there you find something new

766
00:29:28,350 --> 00:29:26,350
something fascinating that you want to

767
00:29:30,330 --> 00:29:28,360
explore further and it really helps us

768
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:30,340
hone our science and the questions we

769
00:29:35,910 --> 00:29:32,170
want to ask for next time but we only

770
00:29:37,530 --> 00:29:35,920
come up with new questions to Yasim just

771
00:29:42,690 --> 00:29:37,540
oozing out of the screen in front of me

772
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:42,700
it's fantastic many of our younger

773
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:44,770
viewers are wondering how does one

774
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:47,050
become a scientist at JPL you have some

775
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:49,210
some words of advice for them oh sure

776
00:29:55,170 --> 00:29:52,810
that's a great question I think in

777
00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:55,180
addition to like studying a science one

778
00:30:01,590 --> 00:29:57,730
of the most important things is to stay

779
00:30:03,060 --> 00:30:01,600
curious and be motivated because

780
00:30:05,970 --> 00:30:03,070
planetary science is such an

781
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:05,980
interdisciplinary through fields you can

782
00:30:12,330 --> 00:30:08,890
study anything from biology to chemistry

783
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:12,340
to geology astrophysics all of these

784
00:30:17,100 --> 00:30:15,010
things you can apply to the planetary

785
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:17,110
science and become a scientist and a

786
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:20,530
NASA center like JPL one day so don't

787
00:30:25,290 --> 00:30:22,930
pick a major because you think that's

788
00:30:26,820 --> 00:30:25,300
what they want pick something that you

789
00:30:29,430 --> 00:30:26,830
enjoy but you're passionate about

790
00:30:31,830 --> 00:30:29,440
something that you would do for free but

791
00:30:34,110 --> 00:30:31,840
you didn't even need to be paid for that

792
00:30:36,570 --> 00:30:34,120
passion is going to follow you

793
00:30:38,460 --> 00:30:36,580
throughout your entire career and if

794
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:38,470
it's something that you can tie in to

795
00:30:43,050 --> 00:30:40,690
planetary science or astrobiology all

796
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:43,060
the better but we have not just

797
00:30:46,470 --> 00:30:44,650
scientists we have engineers that work

798
00:30:49,410 --> 00:30:46,480
on these missions of course we have

799
00:30:51,270 --> 00:30:49,420
journalists people who helped us with

800
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:51,280
our media campaigns and help us

801
00:30:56,100 --> 00:30:53,890
communicate to the world we have artists

802
00:30:58,380 --> 00:30:56,110
JPL has a few resident artists that help

803
00:31:00,330 --> 00:30:58,390
us with our outreach

804
00:31:02,610 --> 00:31:00,340
they'll help us with mission proposals

805
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:02,620
and all of the beautiful artwork you see

806
00:31:06,660 --> 00:31:05,050
on our websites that's thanks to them so

807
00:31:09,450 --> 00:31:06,670
there are a lot of different career

808
00:31:10,620 --> 00:31:09,460
paths that will take you to NASA now

809
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:10,630
there's something else I mentioned

810
00:31:14,490 --> 00:31:12,490
earlier on remember how I said I did an

811
00:31:16,860 --> 00:31:14,500
internship that I think is really

812
00:31:19,140 --> 00:31:16,870
important to NASA has a bunch of

813
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:19,150
internship programs and they're a great

814
00:31:23,940 --> 00:31:21,850
way for you to get a taste for what this

815
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:23,950
work is actually like figure out if it's

816
00:31:28,170 --> 00:31:26,050
really for you or not and then expand

817
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:28,180
that network it's a lot harder to ignore

818
00:31:32,420 --> 00:31:30,850
an application from someone when you

819
00:31:35,220 --> 00:31:32,430
know who they are they've already

820
00:31:37,140 --> 00:31:35,230
demonstrated their capabilities because

821
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:37,150
you've seen them to do some work and

822
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:39,250
you've built that reputation already so

823
00:31:44,370 --> 00:31:41,170
I really encourage applying for

824
00:31:46,740 --> 00:31:44,380
internships fantastic and you're almost

825
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:46,750
time to open up the conversation to our

826
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:48,370
guest to ask questions but I do want to

827
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:50,170
ask you about your hobby which is

828
00:31:53,820 --> 00:31:52,930
mountain biking on a unicycle how did

829
00:31:56,730 --> 00:31:53,830
you get into that

830
00:31:58,680 --> 00:31:56,740
we call it Mountain unicycling or Muni

831
00:32:00,060 --> 00:31:58,690
for short and we basically just got rid

832
00:32:02,430 --> 00:32:00,070
of all the stuff you don't need you know

833
00:32:02,790 --> 00:32:02,440
the handlebars the brakes the training

834
00:32:04,700 --> 00:32:02,800
wheel

835
00:32:08,820 --> 00:32:04,710
oh that just you don't really need it

836
00:32:11,610 --> 00:32:08,830
but but seriously though when I was

837
00:32:13,620 --> 00:32:11,620
doing my internship at JPL so I was

838
00:32:16,170 --> 00:32:13,630
still an undergraduate student I met

839
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:16,180
this really cute guy who was riding a

840
00:32:20,070 --> 00:32:18,130
unicycle around Kyle Petty so I went up

841
00:32:22,260 --> 00:32:20,080
and talked to him and asked him about it

842
00:32:24,900 --> 00:32:22,270
because it was a really unusual looking

843
00:32:27,210 --> 00:32:24,910
unicycle it had a big gnarly tired like

844
00:32:29,460 --> 00:32:27,220
nubs on it it was really like beefy

845
00:32:32,010 --> 00:32:29,470
looking and it turns out that he had

846
00:32:34,230 --> 00:32:32,020
done mountain unicycling and a few years

847
00:32:38,130 --> 00:32:34,240
later I kind of married him and now we

848
00:32:40,950 --> 00:32:38,140
go riding pretty often but I love that

849
00:32:43,260 --> 00:32:40,960
sport because it forces me to be

850
00:32:45,060 --> 00:32:43,270
completely focused like I can't let my

851
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:45,070
thoughts drift off to the work I need to

852
00:32:48,870 --> 00:32:46,930
do or the proposal I need to write or

853
00:32:50,430 --> 00:32:48,880
the papers I'm working on like you have

854
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:50,440
to be completely focused on what you're

855
00:32:53,730 --> 00:32:51,970
doing because if you let your thoughts

856
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:53,740
drift you're gonna hit a rock in base

857
00:32:57,900 --> 00:32:56,770
and that's not so good so I like it for

858
00:33:01,260 --> 00:32:57,910
that I like it because it's really

859
00:33:03,780 --> 00:33:01,270
challenging and yeah it's sort of like

860
00:33:05,820 --> 00:33:03,790
meditation and motion for me one of the

861
00:33:07,950 --> 00:33:05,830
things I've noticed about all of my

862
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:07,960
colleagues at JPL and in other NASA

863
00:33:12,150 --> 00:33:09,730
centers as well you said joy or a good

864
00:33:14,430 --> 00:33:12,160
example too we tend to have hobbies

865
00:33:16,470 --> 00:33:14,440
where you know we'll be passionate and

866
00:33:19,140 --> 00:33:16,480
push push ourselves as well

867
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:19,150
in hobbies just like we do in work and I

868
00:33:23,790 --> 00:33:21,610
really love that because we're all such

869
00:33:25,410 --> 00:33:23,800
dynamic people and it's great to see the

870
00:33:27,660 --> 00:33:25,420
different outlets that we push our

871
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:27,670
energy into you do you do what is it

872
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:31,450
it's Navin navigating know doing my

873
00:33:35,100 --> 00:33:33,730
interior yeah we're you like get a map

874
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:35,110
and then you go that's a really useful

875
00:33:38,340 --> 00:33:36,490
skill for all sorts of different reasons

876
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:38,350
and then you race you like run around

877
00:33:43,020 --> 00:33:41,530
that's awesome yeah it's something I'd

878
00:33:44,970 --> 00:33:43,030
like to do all you don't know the course

879
00:33:46,980 --> 00:33:44,980
prior to the race the race starts you're

880
00:33:51,230 --> 00:33:46,990
given a map and the compass and let go

881
00:33:53,310 --> 00:33:51,240
like where am i hey I think it's awesome

882
00:33:54,420 --> 00:33:53,320
let's not not talk about me let's talk

883
00:33:57,210 --> 00:33:54,430
about you but it's time for questions

884
00:33:59,250 --> 00:33:57,220
which is my favorite part of the show so

885
00:34:01,350 --> 00:33:59,260
please ask your questions using hashtag

886
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:01,360
ask Astro bio on Twitter or put them in

887
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:02,650
a cigarette chat if you're watching on

888
00:34:06,390 --> 00:34:04,930
cigarette butt org or put them in

889
00:34:09,060 --> 00:34:06,400
comments if you're on Facebook live and

890
00:34:11,460 --> 00:34:09,070
the first question is from Marian Denton

891
00:34:13,530 --> 00:34:11,470
hello Marianne and she asks what is your

892
00:34:15,090 --> 00:34:13,540
favorite earth analog in other words if

893
00:34:17,790 --> 00:34:15,100
you can take a car and drive away where

894
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:17,800
would you go okay my favorite earth

895
00:34:22,169 --> 00:34:20,050
analog well I've got one that I could

896
00:34:23,460 --> 00:34:22,179
drive to and one that I definitely would

897
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:23,470
need to take a plane and then do some

898
00:34:28,530 --> 00:34:26,290
hiking so my favorite earth analog that

899
00:34:30,870 --> 00:34:28,540
I can drive to is probably Death Valley

900
00:34:32,909 --> 00:34:30,880
there's a place there called Devil's

901
00:34:34,590 --> 00:34:32,919
golf course which if you haven't seen

902
00:34:37,290 --> 00:34:34,600
one this looks like definitely Google it

903
00:34:39,180 --> 00:34:37,300
it's really gnarly looking it's it's a

904
00:34:41,610 --> 00:34:39,190
salt pan that has gone through many

905
00:34:43,350 --> 00:34:41,620
cycles it was getting wet and then the

906
00:34:45,210 --> 00:34:43,360
liquid evaporating away and since it's

907
00:34:46,710 --> 00:34:45,220
in Death Valley it's so salt rich that

908
00:34:48,150 --> 00:34:46,720
you end up with these like they look

909
00:34:50,669 --> 00:34:48,160
like rocks but they're made out of salt

910
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:50,679
and they're very sharp and you know if

911
00:34:53,730 --> 00:34:52,210
you tried to hike on them you care if

912
00:34:56,010 --> 00:34:53,740
your boots and probably get some scrapes

913
00:34:59,010 --> 00:34:56,020
and scratches the cool thing about this

914
00:35:00,870 --> 00:34:59,020
place is that from a very low resolution

915
00:35:02,820 --> 00:35:00,880
if you were just to fly over it with a

916
00:35:04,980 --> 00:35:02,830
low resolution camera it would look

917
00:35:07,350 --> 00:35:04,990
smoothest soaked like the safest place

918
00:35:08,970 --> 00:35:07,360
you could possibly land but then when

919
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:08,980
you actually get down there or get some

920
00:35:13,500 --> 00:35:11,170
high-resolution imagery it's kind of

921
00:35:15,630 --> 00:35:13,510
it's got some some crags and some some

922
00:35:17,220 --> 00:35:15,640
drops and dips and scary stuff that you

923
00:35:20,010 --> 00:35:17,230
might not necessarily be okay with

924
00:35:21,780 --> 00:35:20,020
sticking a lander on so it's a good use

925
00:35:23,820 --> 00:35:21,790
case for us to try to test some of our

926
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:23,830
our landing capability for things like

927
00:35:27,070 --> 00:35:25,490
the Europa land

928
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:27,080
that's the one I would drive - the one I

929
00:35:32,830 --> 00:35:29,570
would fly to is probably the summit of

930
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:32,840
Mount Kilimanjaro when I was a graduate

931
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:34,970
student I was fortunate enough to be

932
00:35:39,250 --> 00:35:37,490
added on to a team where we got to hike

933
00:35:41,740 --> 00:35:39,260
up to the top of that mountain and camp

934
00:35:44,350 --> 00:35:41,750
at the summit for four nights and it was

935
00:35:47,500 --> 00:35:44,360
one of the most amazing experiences I've

936
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:47,510
ever had I mean you feel like you're

937
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:49,610
that much closer to space I can't

938
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:51,290
remember what exactly the pressure is at

939
00:35:57,250 --> 00:35:53,570
20,000 feet that's the altitude at the

940
00:35:58,990 --> 00:35:57,260
top but it's just it's amazing and our

941
00:36:00,790 --> 00:35:59,000
sample site was like this very short

942
00:36:02,620 --> 00:36:00,800
walk away from camp it was near one of

943
00:36:04,270 --> 00:36:02,630
the the glaciers ice fields like the

944
00:36:06,670 --> 00:36:04,280
edge of this glacier and it was up this

945
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:06,680
really gentle incline but since it's at

946
00:36:10,900 --> 00:36:08,090
20,000 feet you don't have as much

947
00:36:12,370 --> 00:36:10,910
option oxygen and I remember like just

948
00:36:15,220 --> 00:36:12,380
going up that tiny hill you're totally

949
00:36:17,020 --> 00:36:15,230
winded by the end you're like man I'm

950
00:36:19,870 --> 00:36:17,030
not a shape and then you remember oh no

951
00:36:23,050 --> 00:36:19,880
we're not like ridiculously high 3/5

952
00:36:24,730 --> 00:36:23,060
it's nuts but beautiful place yeah thank

953
00:36:28,510 --> 00:36:24,740
you pressure at the top is like half of

954
00:36:33,730 --> 00:36:28,520
what we have on the under it's pretty

955
00:36:36,130 --> 00:36:33,740
intense very windy so one of the key

956
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:36,140
elements for life is phosphorus at least

957
00:36:40,030 --> 00:36:38,090
for life on Earth and Tom Caruso via

958
00:36:42,130 --> 00:36:40,040
Facebook asks can you explain the

959
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:42,140
possible phosphorous cycle on titan and

960
00:36:46,300 --> 00:36:43,970
possible sources of phosphorous outside

961
00:36:47,710 --> 00:36:46,310
of the moon such as meteors or dust

962
00:36:49,330 --> 00:36:47,720
during particulates over time that could

963
00:36:54,310 --> 00:36:49,340
influence the development of life on

964
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:54,320
Titan or any of the moons nearby yeah so

965
00:36:58,120 --> 00:36:56,690
life is we know it includes phosphorus

966
00:37:01,140 --> 00:36:58,130
as one of its key elements like we

967
00:37:03,220 --> 00:37:01,150
talked about ATP adenosine triphosphate

968
00:37:05,650 --> 00:37:03,230
phosphorus is a key part of that energy

969
00:37:08,020 --> 00:37:05,660
transferring molecule that all life uses

970
00:37:10,390 --> 00:37:08,030
now as you get further out into the

971
00:37:13,240 --> 00:37:10,400
solar system further away from the Sun

972
00:37:15,340 --> 00:37:13,250
you end up getting enriched less in

973
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:15,350
metals like mercury is sort of the most

974
00:37:19,510 --> 00:37:18,050
metal containing planet as you March

975
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:19,520
further out you get less of that and

976
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:22,610
more of volatile condensing so things

977
00:37:29,230 --> 00:37:26,450
like ammonia nitrogen methane water co2

978
00:37:32,590 --> 00:37:29,240
stuff like that now Titan still has a

979
00:37:34,870 --> 00:37:32,600
rocky core so if there were to be life

980
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:34,880
you know in that surface ocean it's

981
00:37:38,470 --> 00:37:36,650
possible that there could be some

982
00:37:40,150 --> 00:37:38,480
phosphate that you could get

983
00:37:41,770 --> 00:37:40,160
from that environment there are some

984
00:37:44,890 --> 00:37:41,780
models that may have an ice layer

985
00:37:46,780 --> 00:37:44,900
between that rocky mantle and the ocean

986
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:46,790
but I think a few studies have come out

987
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:48,170
that show that even if there is ice

988
00:37:52,930 --> 00:37:49,610
there you can still get exchanged

989
00:37:55,210 --> 00:37:52,940
overtime and so that could be something

990
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:55,220
that could exist there's also like your

991
00:37:59,260 --> 00:37:57,770
your person who asked the question

992
00:38:01,990 --> 00:37:59,270
mentioned there could be meteoritic

993
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:02,000
involved that could deposit certain

994
00:38:06,610 --> 00:38:04,010
minerals and things like phosphates as

995
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:06,620
well so there are a few sources they're

996
00:38:10,810 --> 00:38:08,810
not going to be quite as abundant but

997
00:38:12,990 --> 00:38:10,820
that just may give us some ideas in

998
00:38:16,660 --> 00:38:13,000
terms of life as we know it and what the

999
00:38:19,270 --> 00:38:16,670
metabolic limits might be there might be

1000
00:38:22,590 --> 00:38:19,280
a more energy constrained environment

1001
00:38:26,020 --> 00:38:22,600
because of resources like that or life

1002
00:38:28,210 --> 00:38:26,030
might find a way like some people might

1003
00:38:30,820 --> 00:38:28,220
have said in Jurassic Park and we may

1004
00:38:32,380 --> 00:38:30,830
end up utilizing different energy

1005
00:38:34,540 --> 00:38:32,390
transfer molecules and things like that

1006
00:38:38,230 --> 00:38:34,550
there was that controversial paper a few

1007
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:38,240
years ago about the lake Mono Lake in

1008
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:40,970
the arsenic that could potentially take

1009
00:38:44,470 --> 00:38:43,010
the place for phosphate now I urged

1010
00:38:46,630 --> 00:38:44,480
temperatures and pressures that's not

1011
00:38:49,930 --> 00:38:46,640
very likely the reason arsenic is a

1012
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:49,940
poison is because it is not very stable

1013
00:38:54,700 --> 00:38:52,490
in liquid water at our temperatures it

1014
00:38:56,260 --> 00:38:54,710
tends to undergo hydrolysis and so why

1015
00:38:58,720 --> 00:38:56,270
don't do is it will replace the

1016
00:39:00,670 --> 00:38:58,730
phosphate backbone with some arsenic and

1017
00:39:02,770 --> 00:39:00,680
then just kind of chew it up that's why

1018
00:39:04,900 --> 00:39:02,780
arsenic is so dangerous for us but think

1019
00:39:07,150 --> 00:39:04,910
about really low temperatures well then

1020
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:07,160
the hydrolysis will be slowed down a lot

1021
00:39:10,210 --> 00:39:08,930
and let's say you're not even exposed to

1022
00:39:12,550 --> 00:39:10,220
water what if you're in methane or

1023
00:39:15,820 --> 00:39:12,560
ethane as your solvent well then those

1024
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:15,830
types of minerals and other things that

1025
00:39:20,500 --> 00:39:18,410
are different but could behave like

1026
00:39:22,690 --> 00:39:20,510
phosphate might become more important I

1027
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:22,700
think right now we're at the cusp of

1028
00:39:26,980 --> 00:39:25,130
just trying to understand basic

1029
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:26,990
interactions between very simple

1030
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:29,450
combinations of organic molecules on

1031
00:39:33,370 --> 00:39:31,490
Titan ultimately we'd like to get to a

1032
00:39:35,020 --> 00:39:33,380
point where we're testing more complex

1033
00:39:37,060 --> 00:39:35,030
systems and we can really start to

1034
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:37,070
address these questions of what would be

1035
00:39:40,870 --> 00:39:38,930
the analogue for phosphate on Titan

1036
00:39:43,060 --> 00:39:40,880
we're not there yet but it's an exciting

1037
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:43,070
time and I encourage any of your younger

1038
00:39:47,650 --> 00:39:44,930
viewers to think about that as a

1039
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:47,660
potential area of research for a future

1040
00:39:52,330 --> 00:39:51,530
career very exciting the next question

1041
00:39:54,940 --> 00:39:52,340
comes from which would

1042
00:39:57,310 --> 00:39:54,950
who asks it via sega net hi richard and

1043
00:39:59,230 --> 00:39:57,320
his question is really cool because he

1044
00:40:00,910 --> 00:39:59,240
cites the work of a meteorologist

1045
00:40:03,430 --> 00:40:00,920
robert hazen works at carnegie in

1046
00:40:05,230 --> 00:40:03,440
washington DC and Bob Hazen has made the

1047
00:40:07,810 --> 00:40:05,240
argument that the diversity of minerals

1048
00:40:09,430 --> 00:40:07,820
on earth's surface corresponds to the

1049
00:40:11,230 --> 00:40:09,440
increase in diversity of life that has

1050
00:40:13,510 --> 00:40:11,240
taken over the planet in other words a

1051
00:40:17,110 --> 00:40:13,520
lot of minerals means life has taken a

1052
00:40:18,490 --> 00:40:17,120
over place can we use the do we know

1053
00:40:20,230 --> 00:40:18,500
enough about the mineralogy on the

1054
00:40:22,300 --> 00:40:20,240
surface of Mars to kind of use that as a

1055
00:40:24,490 --> 00:40:22,310
proxy for whether or not life is on the

1056
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:24,500
surface that's a really interesting

1057
00:40:32,740 --> 00:40:30,050
question I don't know but I think that

1058
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:32,750
line of thinking of finding a place that

1059
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:35,090
is not bland and purely composed of one

1060
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:37,610
whether it's a mineral like on Mars or

1061
00:40:41,890 --> 00:40:40,130
Earth or an organic mineral on Titan I

1062
00:40:44,650 --> 00:40:41,900
agree we want to go to the interesting

1063
00:40:46,540 --> 00:40:44,660
places where there seem to be chemical

1064
00:40:48,190 --> 00:40:46,550
gradients physical gradients things like

1065
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:48,200
that because that's what life tends to

1066
00:40:54,090 --> 00:40:50,690
muse the other lesson that I think we

1067
00:40:57,010 --> 00:40:54,100
can take so far in our astrobiological

1068
00:40:59,290 --> 00:40:57,020
investigations at this stage is that no

1069
00:41:01,780 --> 00:40:59,300
one test is going to tell us whether or

1070
00:41:04,870 --> 00:41:01,790
not life exists unless let's say some

1071
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:04,880
squid emerges from a crack in Europa

1072
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:06,770
surface and waves is noodley appendage

1073
00:41:10,930 --> 00:41:08,810
at us okay then we might say we've just

1074
00:41:13,060 --> 00:41:10,940
need one test but typically especially

1075
00:41:15,670 --> 00:41:13,070
for micro organisms we're probably going

1076
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:15,680
to need multiple independent lines of

1077
00:41:20,710 --> 00:41:18,770
evidence that lead us towards ultimately

1078
00:41:23,950 --> 00:41:20,720
the final conclusion that there is life

1079
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:23,960
Carl Sagan once said that life has to be

1080
00:41:28,570 --> 00:41:26,210
the hypothesis of last resort so you

1081
00:41:30,940 --> 00:41:28,580
must have eliminated all other possible

1082
00:41:34,510 --> 00:41:30,950
explanations and you're only left with

1083
00:41:36,730 --> 00:41:34,520
life then that's the you know the most

1084
00:41:39,820 --> 00:41:36,740
convincing way you can approach that

1085
00:41:43,330 --> 00:41:39,830
question and so this mineralogical

1086
00:41:44,620 --> 00:41:43,340
diversity idea could be very well one of

1087
00:41:46,060 --> 00:41:44,630
those lines of evidence but I don't

1088
00:41:50,620 --> 00:41:46,070
think it would be convincing enough if

1089
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:50,630
it was the only one cool very cool thank

1090
00:41:54,580 --> 00:41:53,210
you for that and Julia on sega net asks

1091
00:41:57,820 --> 00:41:54,590
about whether you could tell us a bit

1092
00:41:59,350 --> 00:41:57,830
more what cryovolcanoes are like it's

1093
00:42:02,560 --> 00:41:59,360
it's not intuitive we don't really have

1094
00:42:04,750 --> 00:42:02,570
them on earth or do we I sure know I

1095
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:04,760
don't think we have any I mean you can

1096
00:42:10,330 --> 00:42:07,610
when in the lab pretty easily but just

1097
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:10,340
like Earth's has a mantle where we've

1098
00:42:14,140 --> 00:42:13,010
got lava magma right it's magma when

1099
00:42:15,910 --> 00:42:14,150
it's underground and then when it comes

1100
00:42:18,070 --> 00:42:15,920
out it becomes lava right but that's the

1101
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:18,080
difference and so just like magma and

1102
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:20,570
lava here on earth you can have cryo

1103
00:42:25,510 --> 00:42:22,970
magma and cryo lava somewhere else

1104
00:42:28,860 --> 00:42:25,520
instead of being made of molten rock in

1105
00:42:32,260 --> 00:42:28,870
a place like Titan it would be made of

1106
00:42:34,750 --> 00:42:32,270
liquid water or a slurry of like water

1107
00:42:36,730 --> 00:42:34,760
ice but it's just barely liquidy and

1108
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:36,740
kind of viscous because it might have

1109
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:38,930
things like ammonia or other sort of

1110
00:42:44,650 --> 00:42:41,810
antifreeze type molecules that would

1111
00:42:46,300 --> 00:42:44,660
help to depress or lower the freezing

1112
00:42:48,130 --> 00:42:46,310
point so this is something that could

1113
00:42:49,780 --> 00:42:48,140
exist below the freezing point of water

1114
00:42:52,050 --> 00:42:49,790
because it's got a lot of salts and

1115
00:42:55,390 --> 00:42:52,060
ammonia and other stuff in it it may be

1116
00:42:58,510 --> 00:42:55,400
really viscous and not super liquidy but

1117
00:43:00,540 --> 00:42:58,520
that type of cryo magma if it were to

1118
00:43:03,190 --> 00:43:00,550
exist in this environment there could be

1119
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:03,200
different geological mechanisms that

1120
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:06,290
could force that cryo magma up through

1121
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:08,570
some sort of seizure in the surface

1122
00:43:14,350 --> 00:43:11,690
where it could spill out on the on the

1123
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:14,360
top of Titan's surface and there are a

1124
00:43:18,670 --> 00:43:16,610
couple of papers Rosalee Lopez I know

1125
00:43:20,770 --> 00:43:18,680
she's a colleague at JPL has written

1126
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:20,780
about a couple of places on Titan

1127
00:43:24,820 --> 00:43:22,490
surface there's an area called hotei

1128
00:43:27,460 --> 00:43:24,830
Reggio I think that's one I'm in so

1129
00:43:30,370 --> 00:43:27,470
trakula is is the name of another one

1130
00:43:31,930 --> 00:43:30,380
places where it looks like this process

1131
00:43:34,420 --> 00:43:31,940
might be happening and so we might have

1132
00:43:37,930 --> 00:43:34,430
a cryo volcanic flow and these are

1133
00:43:39,370 --> 00:43:37,940
exciting because a it might tell us if

1134
00:43:41,410 --> 00:43:39,380
we were to go and sample one of those

1135
00:43:43,300 --> 00:43:41,420
places we might have an easy way of

1136
00:43:45,550 --> 00:43:43,310
accessing some material from that ocean

1137
00:43:48,610 --> 00:43:45,560
that would be really hard to to drill

1138
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:48,620
and sample ourselves and be this could

1139
00:43:54,070 --> 00:43:51,650
be a place where now you have liquid or

1140
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:54,080
near liquid water interacting with all

1141
00:43:57,760 --> 00:43:56,210
of those fascinating organic molecules

1142
00:43:59,620 --> 00:43:57,770
they have been raining down from the

1143
00:44:02,560 --> 00:43:59,630
atmosphere now this is important because

1144
00:44:05,230 --> 00:44:02,570
here on earth when we make those complex

1145
00:44:07,330 --> 00:44:05,240
organic molecules we call them Dolan's

1146
00:44:08,830 --> 00:44:07,340
Carl Sagan named it it's named after the

1147
00:44:10,180 --> 00:44:08,840
Greek though loose which means muddy are

1148
00:44:11,950 --> 00:44:10,190
not clear I love that because they're

1149
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:11,960
like brownish we also don't really know

1150
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:13,010
what they're made of because it's like a

1151
00:44:16,540 --> 00:44:14,690
soup with all sorts of organic molecules

1152
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:16,550
if you take those Solon's

1153
00:44:19,740 --> 00:44:17,410
and you dissolve

1154
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:19,750
in water you make amino acids like that

1155
00:44:23,900 --> 00:44:22,090
like it's crazy and so any place on

1156
00:44:26,460 --> 00:44:23,910
Titan where we might find liquid water

1157
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:26,470
interacting with these organics we might

1158
00:44:28,860 --> 00:44:28,570
find the ingredients for life as we know

1159
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:28,870
it

1160
00:44:33,210 --> 00:44:30,850
so Craiova Kanak flows are a good place

1161
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:33,220
if there's like an impact from a comet

1162
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:35,650
or meteor the created melt pool that

1163
00:44:38,910 --> 00:44:36,850
could be stable for a while that's

1164
00:44:41,330 --> 00:44:38,920
another big place things like this are

1165
00:44:45,210 --> 00:44:41,340
really fascinating targets for a future

1166
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:45,220
Institute mission Titan indeed and this

1167
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:47,290
leads to the next question by my co-host

1168
00:44:51,690 --> 00:44:49,690
Graham Lau who is curious about if you

1169
00:44:53,790 --> 00:44:51,700
had like an infinite of resources to

1170
00:44:55,860 --> 00:44:53,800
build your own mission to explore the

1171
00:44:58,050 --> 00:44:55,870
icy worlds of our solar system what

1172
00:45:00,330 --> 00:44:58,060
would you do what would you build oh boy

1173
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:00,340
well I think that's a great question and

1174
00:45:04,500 --> 00:45:02,410
I think it would be a different answer

1175
00:45:07,140 --> 00:45:04,510
for a place like Titan then it would be

1176
00:45:09,300 --> 00:45:07,150
for a place like Europa or Enceladus let

1177
00:45:11,130 --> 00:45:09,310
me explain why I do two Titan's

1178
00:45:13,710 --> 00:45:11,140
atmosphere you can actually take

1179
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:13,720
advantage of a couple of different ways

1180
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:16,570
to transport or move your robotic

1181
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:18,370
spacecraft around I'm actually a

1182
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:20,890
co-investigator on one mission concept

1183
00:45:27,210 --> 00:45:23,050
called dragonfly that would do just that

1184
00:45:29,580 --> 00:45:27,220
the PIO zippy turtle out of APL and what

1185
00:45:33,270 --> 00:45:29,590
this is is essentially a rotor craft

1186
00:45:35,700 --> 00:45:33,280
that could fly land basically do these

1187
00:45:37,620 --> 00:45:35,710
hops across the surface of Titan it

1188
00:45:39,540 --> 00:45:37,630
turns out just like we were talking

1189
00:45:40,980 --> 00:45:39,550
about earlier where if you were standing

1190
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:40,990
on the surface and you could flap your

1191
00:45:45,210 --> 00:45:43,330
wings you could fly on Titan it turns

1192
00:45:46,830 --> 00:45:45,220
out that transporting through air is

1193
00:45:49,620 --> 00:45:46,840
much more efficient than it would be to

1194
00:45:52,110 --> 00:45:49,630
use like a typical Mars rover kind of

1195
00:45:53,850 --> 00:45:52,120
design for an environment like Titan so

1196
00:45:55,770 --> 00:45:53,860
I think in terms of exploring Titan

1197
00:45:57,870 --> 00:45:55,780
that's the exact kind of architecture I

1198
00:46:00,360 --> 00:45:57,880
would use because then you can move to

1199
00:46:02,610 --> 00:46:00,370
different places so we could say we

1200
00:46:04,650 --> 00:46:02,620
found a cryo volcanic flow we could land

1201
00:46:06,150 --> 00:46:04,660
there collect some samples do some

1202
00:46:07,620 --> 00:46:06,160
science and then we could hop over to

1203
00:46:08,970 --> 00:46:07,630
the dunes and figure out what the heck

1204
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:08,980
those are made of because we still don't

1205
00:46:12,930 --> 00:46:10,570
know and maybe we could hop all the way

1206
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:12,940
over to a lake edge and collect a sample

1207
00:46:17,370 --> 00:46:15,130
there there are all sorts of things you

1208
00:46:19,500 --> 00:46:17,380
could do with that kind of platform so I

1209
00:46:22,530 --> 00:46:19,510
think that's what I do for Titan now for

1210
00:46:24,510 --> 00:46:22,540
Enceladus in Europa oh boy

1211
00:46:29,910 --> 00:46:24,520
it depends on how much money I had I

1212
00:46:30,450 --> 00:46:29,920
think if I could if I could um like

1213
00:46:33,420 --> 00:46:30,460
slice through

1214
00:46:35,970 --> 00:46:33,430
plume of Enceladus with a lot more

1215
00:46:37,890 --> 00:46:35,980
detailed instruments or instruments with

1216
00:46:41,849 --> 00:46:37,900
better resolution and sensitivity and

1217
00:46:43,950 --> 00:46:41,859
Cassini I definitely do that but you

1218
00:46:46,589 --> 00:46:43,960
know ultimately landing maybe digging

1219
00:46:48,630 --> 00:46:46,599
down drilling into the crust and getting

1220
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:48,640
to the ocean and letting loose a

1221
00:46:52,980 --> 00:46:50,530
submersible that would ideally be what

1222
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:52,990
I'd like to do swim around look for some

1223
00:46:57,660 --> 00:46:55,330
some - worms by those hydrothermal vents

1224
00:47:04,530 --> 00:46:57,670
and and officially collect my Nobel

1225
00:47:06,390 --> 00:47:04,540
Prize that's what I do a few episodes

1226
00:47:08,910 --> 00:47:06,400
ago and asking astrobiologists we had

1227
00:47:10,530 --> 00:47:08,920
ski vents we weren't doing Steve ants

1228
00:47:13,109 --> 00:47:10,540
and he was a science advisor for the

1229
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:13,119
movie the Europa report so those of you

1230
00:47:16,050 --> 00:47:14,650
who are watching today like you haven't

1231
00:47:17,250 --> 00:47:16,060
seen that movie go ahead and which head

1232
00:47:19,770 --> 00:47:17,260
gives you a bit of an idea of what it

1233
00:47:21,630 --> 00:47:19,780
takes to explore Europa I'm so we're

1234
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:21,640
getting close on time here but I want to

1235
00:47:25,290 --> 00:47:23,170
give Prieta the chance to ask her

1236
00:47:27,690 --> 00:47:25,300
questions which is very good and she

1237
00:47:30,060 --> 00:47:27,700
asks apart from Mars and the moons of

1238
00:47:32,099 --> 00:47:30,070
Jupiter and Saturn what are the other

1239
00:47:36,420 --> 00:47:32,109
places in the solar system that are most

1240
00:47:38,730 --> 00:47:36,430
probably habitable oh okay

1241
00:47:41,490 --> 00:47:38,740
other than Mars and the moons of Jupiter

1242
00:47:43,410 --> 00:47:41,500
and Saturn okay well Triton which is a

1243
00:47:45,450 --> 00:47:43,420
moon around Neptune is really

1244
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:45,460
fascinating and really weird right it's

1245
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:47,770
orbiting backwards which means we think

1246
00:47:50,700 --> 00:47:49,210
it might be like a captured quick

1247
00:47:53,430 --> 00:47:50,710
rebelled object or something like that

1248
00:47:55,290 --> 00:47:53,440
it's got active cryovolcanoes it's the

1249
00:47:57,660 --> 00:47:55,300
one place that it's confirmed for sure

1250
00:48:00,329 --> 00:47:57,670
to have that thanks to the Voyager

1251
00:48:01,740 --> 00:48:00,339
missions we know about that so it looks

1252
00:48:03,900 --> 00:48:01,750
like that could be a really fascinating

1253
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:03,910
place it's not clear if it also has a

1254
00:48:09,030 --> 00:48:06,490
liquid water ocean that would be one of

1255
00:48:10,710 --> 00:48:09,040
the main things to look at the next time

1256
00:48:11,790 --> 00:48:10,720
we send something there which boy I hope

1257
00:48:14,970 --> 00:48:11,800
is soon because that's a fascinating

1258
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:14,980
place - there's been a lot of work with

1259
00:48:19,710 --> 00:48:18,130
Ceres and some of the larger dwarf

1260
00:48:21,510 --> 00:48:19,720
planets and things like that in the

1261
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:21,520
asteroid belt that are really

1262
00:48:26,130 --> 00:48:23,770
fascinating there are these Trojan

1263
00:48:28,890 --> 00:48:26,140
asteroids that that are further out that

1264
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:28,900
also could host environments where maybe

1265
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:30,490
liquid water could be stable for a

1266
00:48:34,710 --> 00:48:32,530
certain period of time now we still

1267
00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:34,720
don't even know how long you need to

1268
00:48:38,790 --> 00:48:36,730
have the right ingredients for life to

1269
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:38,800
emerge to just sit and wait and have

1270
00:48:42,630 --> 00:48:40,810
life form we still don't know what what

1271
00:48:43,410 --> 00:48:42,640
that is is it 20 seconds is it 20

1272
00:48:46,589 --> 00:48:43,420
million years we

1273
00:48:48,359 --> 00:48:46,599
and so I think going and looking at all

1274
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:48,369
of these places is really important

1275
00:48:52,589 --> 00:48:50,410
because like you said Sen join we only

1276
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:52,599
have a sample size of one right we know

1277
00:48:56,940 --> 00:48:54,970
earth is the place we have life here

1278
00:48:59,099 --> 00:48:56,950
that's it that's all we know up and so

1279
00:49:01,049 --> 00:48:59,109
by studying all these other places where

1280
00:49:02,519 --> 00:49:01,059
liquid water may have existed for

1281
00:49:04,740 --> 00:49:02,529
different time scales where the

1282
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:04,750
temperatures are the pH or the the

1283
00:49:09,509 --> 00:49:06,970
initial ingredients may be different all

1284
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:09,519
of those things we can now bring into

1285
00:49:13,890 --> 00:49:12,010
our sample size and assess okay well in

1286
00:49:16,140 --> 00:49:13,900
this environment there's no life but it

1287
00:49:18,210 --> 00:49:16,150
had these conditions vs. earth which had

1288
00:49:20,700 --> 00:49:18,220
life time these conditions and this can

1289
00:49:22,559 --> 00:49:20,710
help inform our exploration and our

1290
00:49:25,620 --> 00:49:22,569
study of exoplanets and trying to find

1291
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:25,630
life elsewhere as well that's so

1292
00:49:29,700 --> 00:49:27,970
fascinating but before we closed over

1293
00:49:32,130 --> 00:49:29,710
again I want to give you an entire

1294
00:49:34,230 --> 00:49:32,140
Cassini team a huge shout out for the

1295
00:49:35,670 --> 00:49:34,240
incredible mission that it's been and I

1296
00:49:37,049 --> 00:49:35,680
think we're still getting data and

1297
00:49:40,470 --> 00:49:37,059
analyzing trying to figure out what it

1298
00:49:42,289 --> 00:49:40,480
means but Cassini received an Emmy Award

1299
00:49:45,329 --> 00:49:42,299
right tell us about that that's awesome

1300
00:49:46,859 --> 00:49:45,339
yeah Cassini is any was for I want to

1301
00:49:49,859 --> 00:49:46,869
read it it was outstanding original

1302
00:49:52,980 --> 00:49:49,869
interactive program so this was right

1303
00:49:54,660 --> 00:49:52,990
near the grand finale we we had a unique

1304
00:49:57,059 --> 00:49:54,670
opportunity right the spacecraft was

1305
00:49:59,220 --> 00:49:57,069
working perfectly and we could actually

1306
00:50:00,299 --> 00:49:59,230
plan the end of the missions now you

1307
00:50:02,249 --> 00:50:00,309
don't always get to do this sometimes

1308
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:02,259
things go wrong like with the Spirit

1309
00:50:06,839 --> 00:50:05,410
Mars rover where that was sort of out of

1310
00:50:09,240 --> 00:50:06,849
our control of when that mission might

1311
00:50:12,170 --> 00:50:09,250
end but with Cassini we knew we were

1312
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:12,180
running out of gas and we didn't want to

1313
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:15,130
have Cassini run out us completely and

1314
00:50:18,690 --> 00:50:16,930
then drift aimlessly in the Saturn

1315
00:50:20,549 --> 00:50:18,700
system where we couldn't control it

1316
00:50:22,529 --> 00:50:20,559
anymore miss Cassini was kind of a

1317
00:50:24,799 --> 00:50:22,539
victim of its own success it discovered

1318
00:50:27,870 --> 00:50:24,809
liquid water on Enceladus and

1319
00:50:30,749 --> 00:50:27,880
underground on Titan - what if by chance

1320
00:50:32,490 --> 00:50:30,759
a thousand years from now 10,000 years

1321
00:50:35,190 --> 00:50:32,500
from now Cassini were to accidentally

1322
00:50:37,140 --> 00:50:35,200
crash in one of these places and deposit

1323
00:50:39,450 --> 00:50:37,150
one of its microbial hitchhikers there

1324
00:50:41,579 --> 00:50:39,460
we did our the best job we could to

1325
00:50:43,170 --> 00:50:41,589
clean Cassini but we didn't sterilize it

1326
00:50:44,999 --> 00:50:43,180
but we didn't think liquid water could

1327
00:50:47,970 --> 00:50:45,009
exist that far out when we built it and

1328
00:50:50,249 --> 00:50:47,980
launched it in 97 and so because of that

1329
00:50:52,319 --> 00:50:50,259
we had to dispose of Cassini somewhere

1330
00:50:54,509 --> 00:50:52,329
where we knew it could not contaminate

1331
00:50:56,340 --> 00:50:54,519
that place with earth life what would be

1332
00:50:58,140 --> 00:50:56,350
worse than finally finding life on

1333
00:51:00,870 --> 00:50:58,150
and realizing we accidentally put it

1334
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:00,880
there so because of that we planned this

1335
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:03,370
swan dive into Saturn's atmosphere we

1336
00:51:08,690 --> 00:51:05,890
collected data the entire way until we

1337
00:51:12,300 --> 00:51:08,700
lost signal and as part of that effort

1338
00:51:15,540 --> 00:51:12,310
our media department did a huge outreach

1339
00:51:18,870 --> 00:51:15,550
campaign you can still go to Saturn JPL

1340
00:51:21,270 --> 00:51:18,880
NASA gov and find a lot of those those

1341
00:51:23,220 --> 00:51:21,280
same outreach activities things that we

1342
00:51:26,850 --> 00:51:23,230
were monitoring we had some incredible

1343
00:51:28,980 --> 00:51:26,860
videos and then some live footage of the

1344
00:51:31,470 --> 00:51:28,990
Cassini grand finale plunge which is at

1345
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:31,480
five o'clock in the morning here Pacific

1346
00:51:36,900 --> 00:51:34,570
time and it was an incredible Herculean

1347
00:51:39,090 --> 00:51:36,910
effort those media specialists that are

1348
00:51:41,340 --> 00:51:39,100
on our team were absolutely amazing and

1349
00:51:43,380 --> 00:51:41,350
very deserving of the emmy i mean they

1350
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:43,390
were the ones who did the lion's share

1351
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:45,010
of the work but everyone on Cassini

1352
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:47,650
feels like the emmy is in part a little

1353
00:51:50,790 --> 00:51:48,850
bit you know it's shared amongst the

1354
00:51:53,490 --> 00:51:50,800
whole team because this mission was just

1355
00:51:56,220 --> 00:51:53,500
such an amazing success and it touched

1356
00:51:58,440 --> 00:51:56,230
so many lives and like you said the data

1357
00:52:01,650 --> 00:51:58,450
we're still gonna be analyzing that for

1358
00:52:04,050 --> 00:52:01,660
decades to come so it's an incredible

1359
00:52:06,300 --> 00:52:04,060
thing to be a part of and just can't be

1360
00:52:08,580 --> 00:52:06,310
more proud of my colleagues and friends

1361
00:52:10,410 --> 00:52:08,590
on the Cassini mission this particular

1362
00:52:12,660 --> 00:52:10,420
the the media teams that made that

1363
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:12,670
possible wonderful and that's a

1364
00:52:15,570 --> 00:52:14,170
beautiful place to close we're running

1365
00:52:17,460 --> 00:52:15,580
out of time which is so too bad I really

1366
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:17,470
value this conversation Morgan I know

1367
00:52:21,090 --> 00:52:18,970
you're extremely busy and it's clear

1368
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:21,100
that you are you do a lot of science you

1369
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:23,290
even travel the world to outreach to

1370
00:52:27,180 --> 00:52:25,690
talk about how exciting Sciences you're

1371
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:27,190
really excellent role model for many of

1372
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:28,930
our young viewers just want to thank you

1373
00:52:32,670 --> 00:52:30,490
for the time you took to speak with us

1374
00:52:35,250 --> 00:52:32,680
today Thank You Sandra I feel really

1375
00:52:37,910 --> 00:52:35,260
lucky to be able to have fun I love

1376
00:52:40,830 --> 00:52:37,920
going to work every day and I hope that

1377
00:52:43,170 --> 00:52:40,840
we can potentially you and I and and all

1378
00:52:44,460 --> 00:52:43,180
of us who advocate for outreach and

1379
00:52:46,170 --> 00:52:44,470
science we can inspire the next

1380
00:52:47,850 --> 00:52:46,180
generation because I don't want the

1381
00:52:49,380 --> 00:52:47,860
science to end with us we've got to have

1382
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:49,390
that next generation come up and

1383
00:52:57,510 --> 00:52:52,690
continue to do amazing things so thanks

1384
00:52:59,040 --> 00:52:57,520
and awesome so you are at at stars are

1385
00:52:59,970 --> 00:52:59,050
calling on Twitter so if you're on

1386
00:53:02,910 --> 00:52:59,980
Twitter and you're not you're not

1387
00:53:05,070 --> 00:53:02,920
following Morgan please do so folks this

1388
00:53:07,020 --> 00:53:05,080
is it for this week I will see you next

1389
00:53:08,530 --> 00:53:07,030
month on ask an astrobiologist was gram

1390
00:53:09,910 --> 00:53:08,540
presenting and until then

1391
00:53:12,060 --> 00:53:09,920
it's good to see you all and stay